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Doing the Masculinity thing the right way

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Doing the Masculinity thing the right way Empty Doing the Masculinity thing the right way

Post  Slimegullet Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:32 pm

Since you guys seems like like deep topics on life/love philosophies. i enjoy psychology : P

The failure for men to mature creates many problems for society: broken relationships, divorces, violence, fatherless children, narcissism, rising teen pregnancies, etc

A few months ago, a reporter from The National Enquirer interviewed me for my comments and opinion on the relationship between actor Patrick Stewart and his new girlfriend jazz singer, Sunny Ozell. Patrick Stewart is 68 and Sunny, at age 31, is five years younger than Stewart’s daughter, Sophie, 36. My response was that when there is an age difference as big as 37 years (or 41 years as is the case with Rolling Stone’s Ron Wood and his 20 year old girlfriend Ekaterina Ivanova or 45 years as is the case with Morgan Freeman and his girlfriend, his 27 year old step granddaughter E’Dena Hines) then this signifies that the man hasn’t matured and he is still stuck in the dark side of the hero phase – he is still behaving like a boy.

This behavior is equivalent to adolescence or ego. It is akin to the fairy tale where the young prince or knight saves and wins the damsel but the story ends there; he is after all, a young prince or knight, we never see him mature (evolve) to be a king. Is that because he does not know what to do with her and maybe does not know himself beyond being a prince or knight – he never looks deeper into his own masculine self? The fairy tale suggests that the relationship between the prince and damsel is simply infatuation and there is no deeper connection or evolution; it is simply artificial or superficial love. Both prince and damsel also stay young forever – a symbol or metaphor that they also do not evolve.

Unfortunately, the fairy tale hero story sets us up to believe that our only goal is to conquer, to win and rescue and thus, it sets up as the ideal, the stuck hero.

The stuck hero endlessly feeds his need to conquer and control, severing relationships along the way, naïve and drunk in the illusion that there are no limits, he can do anything. He becomes patriarchal, aggressive, but not wise; stepping on others to serve his own needs instead of using his power to help, protect and serve others.

The self-serving hero phase represents an aggressive stage in life filled with the desire for selfish conquest and triumph; the desire to amass trophies – possessions and things only for one-self.

Recently, I witnessed something similar with a 40 year old man who has a serious girlfriend but still focuses on physically conquering other women; yes he cheats on her. And when he wins them, he doesn’t know what to do with them, so the relationship or connection remains only on a superficial level. Worse still, he judges women purely on their exterior physical appearance and throws them to the garbage heap when they are over 30 or not physically perfect.

The above examples represent immaturity in a man: he stays stuck as a boy, failing or unable to evolve into manhood.

What is maturity?

The dictionary defines mature as “fully developed in body and mind.”

So what does it mean to be fully developed in “mind”?

Interestingly, the greatest gender difference in men and women is obviously the hormonal makeup with Testosterone creating aggression, competitiveness, and the urge to dominate.

Professor Steven Goldberg, Chairman of the Department of Sociology at City College of New York, in his provocative book, “Why Men Rule–A Theory of Male Dominance”, claims men and women are different due to their hormonally-driven behavior. Professor Goldberg argues that the high level of testosterone in males drives them toward dominance in the world, while the lack of high levels of this hormone in women creates a natural, biological push in the direction of less dominant and more nurturing roles in society.

However, the evolution and maturation of a male involves growing to a phase where a man thinks beyond dominance, grandiosity and patriarchy; a man who thinks outside of himself and his own desires. Thus, the next phase would be that of service and purpose. In other words, the man has a clearly defined purpose in life that includes making a difference in the world – giving and serving rather than simply taking and amassing.

Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette believe that mature masculinity is not abusive, domineering, or grandiose, but generative, creative, and empowering of the self and others.

They distinguish between the immature masculine – boy psychology and the mature masculine – man psychology.

They list the four immature archetypes as:


Divine Child – the boy that believes he has divine rights and everyone should bow to his whims
Oedipal Child – the son that is mother-fixated
Precocious Child –
Hero – aggressive, conquering and controlling without purpose

The immature boy phase is summed up as someone that stays stuck in the adolescent phase, still bound to his parents (often the mother), does not have or know his own identity, does not trust himself or life, remains rebellious, unable to adjust to any of society’s norms or values, and, lacking in a competent or secure ego.

The result is immature men whom:


Cannot form real and meaningful relationships
Cannot communicate and nurture relationships with family, friends and colleagues
Haven’t severed the bonds of the mother complex
Can have a child but run from the responsibility of being a father and raising their children
Don’t focus on solutions
Move through life lost and confused, without meaning or purpose
Live only for their own ego and pleasure – often becoming narcissistic
Thrive on showing off their power, impressing others, acting superior and dominating others or the opposite – acting cowardly and weak, reluctant to stand up for themselves
Become obsessed with dating young women


In their book, Robert Moore PhD and Douglas Gillette define the four archetypes of mature masculinity:


King – the organizer – the energy of just and creative ordering
Warrior – aggressiveness – the energy of self-disciplined, aggressive action
Magician – knowledge – the energy of initiation and transformation
Lover – feeling – the energy that connects men to others and the world
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Post  Altruism Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:49 am

Some real insight here, expresses in words something a concept that I've been mulling for quite a while. I like the references to biology too, makes it seems more real and easier to take in somehow. Thank you for this, Shawn!
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Post  Fitsi Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:27 pm

I stopped reading at "the dictionary defines..."

This is written for a high school English class? Half way through and I had no idea what the authors point was. Worse than that I suspect the author has no pint and is just rambling on a theme.

It's a problem when men only age, not mature. Was that the point? If so I could use some evidence on why and how it's a bad thing more than a list of male archetypes.

It's a very interesting topic but a poorly written article with very little to add.

Imho
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Post  Altruism Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:49 pm

It's an excerpt Ian. I think that structuring this concept whilst using the standard archetype of the story hero puts this in context for us all. The extreme example provided isn't there as a thesis more as a thought provoking concept.

Can't we all think of moments in our lives where our behavior is inexplicable and irrational? Without the superstructure of god and religions it is more difficult to express reasoning behind morality. I think this excerpt did a pretty good job of attempting to.
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Post  Slimegullet Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:24 pm

Cromulence wrote:I stopped reading at "the dictionary defines..."

This is written for a high school English class? Half way through and I had no idea what the authors point was. Worse than that I suspect the author has no pint and is just rambling on a theme.

It's a problem when men only age, not mature. Was that the point? If so I could use some evidence on why and how it's a bad thing more than a list of male archetypes.

It's a very interesting topic but a poorly written article with very little to add.

Imho

this is a cut out from a summary of a book by psychologists. Sorry I was unclear about that. Their research goes much deeper into the subject, I just was summarizing the parts I found interesting from the summary, not knowing if anyone would be interested. The main point was that often men have a warped sense about what a mature masculine man is, resulting in weak males which hurts society. In a day and age where many men are unsure of their roles in the world, they are often relying on hormonal insticts to dominate rather than using the strengths we have as men to protect, innovate, motivate, and be the heroes for our families and communities shaping our world for the better, rather than trying to fill those domination instincts by using people and selfishly serving ones own ego via physical domination of others...
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Post  Slimegullet Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:47 pm

Altruism wrote:It's an excerpt Ian. I think that structuring this concept whilst using the standard archetype of the story hero puts this in context for us all. The extreme example provided isn't there as a thesis more as a thought provoking concept.

Can't we all think of moments in our lives where our behavior is inexplicable and irrational? Without the superstructure of god and religions it is more difficult to express reasoning behind morality. I think this excerpt did a pretty good job of attempting to.

Rather than being slaves to testosterone we can use our biology as male (providing confidence, strength, loyalty, iniative, Innovation, leadership, resilience, competitiveness, rationality, etc...) to be real heroes in our families and society, not just A superficial hero dominating, then getting lost ( ahhh what now...) and moving on to self serve ones ego.

and yes, this is supposed to be thought provoking. women are always trying to talk about their changing roles in society and strengths. Men dont do so enough and we sometimes lack
good roles models ... the theory is that men not understanding their own and biology and just seeking to feed their ego can do a lot of damage to others and society, a real hero can enrich
the lives of everyone around them through our vast potential as male
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Post  Slimegullet Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:48 pm

Altruism wrote:Some real insight here, expresses in words something a concept that I've been mulling for quite a while. I like the references to biology too, makes it seems more real and easier to take in somehow. Thank you for this, Shawn!

no problem. i enjoy topics that are like a merging of psychology/biology and philosophy
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